Arena Discussion Thread, mk. 2

[-=Styles=-]

RPed for over four hours yesterday. Didn't need a mod.

Seems to me it's more about the respect from the RPers and the people in the room than anything else. There was one little outbreak, but it was between two of the people RPing as well. One word, and it went away.

[Pitch]

Are you guys going to do realtime updates when the no-OOC ambience wanes (as usual) and it's back to irritatingly constant?

[Atheism]

 

[Kade]

Are you guys going to do realtime updates when the no-OOC ambience wanes (as usual) and it's back to irritatingly constant?

Sure. When that happens, I'll do that.

When

But short of pro-mod people getting uppity because they want to make an issue where there is no issue (in order to justify the 'need' for a mod), it'll never happen. Pretty much.

[Auvic]

I have a feeling that (almost) none of the pro-mod people, really, sans me, have spent much, if any, time in the Arena recently.
"Recently" being whatever the hell you want to make it.
That said, I find this entire thing very, very irritating.

Okay, so there was once a mod. And now there isn't.
Before there was a mod, people complained about having too much OOC.
Now that there's no mod, is there any real reason to go on and on for days on end about "Oh, we RPed without any issues!"? No.

Seriously? Nobody gives a fuck.
Back when people were having an issue with the OOC, you could still RP in the Arena, if you so desired.
And now? You can do the exact same.
Whoopee, you can RP in a room where people are OOCing. And by you, I'm directing this at Kade and Jester. And you aren't the people that anyone was concerned about for this entire time. If you can RP with OOC going on, you can RP just as well without OOC going on. You're not inconvenienced either way.

The entire issue about "There's too much OOC in the Arena" revolved around users that wanted to RP in the Arena, but didn't feel comfortable doing so in an environment where there was so much OOC. And in case you didn't realize, neither of you are part of that group.


In conclusion: It doesn't seem like anyone that RPs - or tries to, at least - in the Arena has come forth here about having issues with OOC, which would seem to lend support to the idea that the Arena is fine. For now, at least.
Soja's doesn't RP in the Arena. Neither does LoX. Their opinions are to be taken as food for thought, but little more.
Similarly, I don't RP in the Arena, so I fall into that group as well.
Gigi, Kade, and Styles can RP perfectly fine in both the presence and absence of OOC.
So for all intents and purposes, we might as well just be discussing philosophy and theories about the behavior of people, since there's obviously nothing that needs to be patched up in regards to the Arena right now.

"Getting uppity", my ass.

[Pitch]

Sunday. June 25th, 3:54 am. Tons of OOC during RP.

Figured I'd do the job for those reporting their "miracles" since I imagine it wouldn't show up here,would it?

Just sayin'.

[Kade]

Exaggeration. Two One posts in and you're flying off the handle?

[Kade]

I have a feeling that (almost) none of the pro-mod people, really, sans me, have spent much, if any, time in the Arena recently.
"Recently" being whatever the hell you want to make it.
That said, I find this entire thing very, very irritating.

Okay, so there was once a mod. And now there isn't.
Before there was a mod, people complained about having too much OOC.
Now that there's no mod, is there any real reason to go on and on for days on end about "Oh, we RPed without any issues!"? No.

Seriously? Nobody gives a fuck.
Back when people were having an issue with the OOC, you could still RP in the Arena, if you so desired.
And now? You can do the exact same.
Whoopee, you can RP in a room where people are OOCing. And by you, I'm directing this at Kade and Jester. And you aren't the people that anyone was concerned about for this entire time. If you can RP with OOC going on, you can RP just as well without OOC going on. You're not inconvenienced either way.

The entire issue about "There's too much OOC in the Arena" revolved around users that wanted to RP in the Arena, but didn't feel comfortable doing so in an environment where there was so much OOC. And in case you didn't realize, neither of you are part of that group.


In conclusion: It doesn't seem like anyone that RPs - or tries to, at least - in the Arena has come forth here about having issues with OOC, which would seem to lend support to the idea that the Arena is fine. For now, at least.
Soja's doesn't RP in the Arena. Neither does LoX. Their opinions are to be taken as food for thought, but little more.
Similarly, I don't RP in the Arena, so I fall into that group as well.
Gigi, Kade, and Styles can RP perfectly fine in both the presence and absence of OOC.
So for all intents and purposes, we might as well just be discussing philosophy and theories about the behavior of people, since there's obviously nothing that needs to be patched up in regards to the Arena right now.

"Getting uppity", my ass.

Now that there's no mod, is there any real reason to go on and on for days on end about "Oh, we RPed without any issues!"? <- Yes, because some people genuinely believe no RP happens in the Arena without encountering issues with OOC.

And for the record, I don't RP alone. A bunch of people were present those days, RPing just like me.

In fact, those people were...

Reks, Amidon, Mesiphidon, Rampage, Wolfprince, Arthur, Illyana, Daul, and some other people I didn't write down. If I remember, I'll add them.

Edit: EdacNanfansai, Cicna, Rudianos, Slayer

Edit: Angelo

Edit: Petra

Edit: Sanja

[Pitch]

Exaggeration. Two One posts in and you're flying off the handle?

Two posts in actually and RP had officially begun. Not to mention its an IC room, regardless. DO I need to screenshot it? My only point is that your reporting RPs without any OOC in them is pointless. You, your mom and your cousins too all started yammering during the play. Hell, I can name some names if you need me too. The sword -you- pulled out in this watery point you're trying to make cuts both ways, son.

[Amidon]

His point is, Kade, that there are people who don't wish for there to be all the OOC that often (like it or not, it happens often. A few cases here and there of it not happening do not somehow make the times it happens null and void) occurs during RP. The people who do not mind it happening shouldn't care either way. Why? Because they still get to RP in any case. The only people who should care are those who want no OOC during RP, and those who don't want to stop OOCing during RP.

That said, we don't need an Arena-specific mod. What we need is active mods in general that appear on the user list at all times and can be reached when necessary, who can then use their own discretion as to whether a situation needs to be handled. The Arena has operated fine over the years. The problem isn't mod or no mod, it's that a lot of people in the past couple of years lack the respect to hush, or else somehow feel like they need to look big and not back down when someone asks them to stop talking when RP starts. I don't mind OOC during RP so long as the OOC doesn't overpower the RP, myself.

Auvic's point was that you shouldn't get hung up on the issue because there is no logical reason for you to care other than wanting to prove an insubstantial point.

[Kade]

The people who do not mind it happening shouldn't care either way.

There are people that do mind OOC happening that also do not believe the arena needs a mod.

That second paragraph of yours, Amidon, was cool though.

[Pitch]

His point is, Kade, that there are people who don't wish for there to be all the OOC that often (like it or not, it happens often. A few cases here and there of it not happening do not somehow make the times it happens null and void) occurs during RP. The people who do not mind it happening shouldn't care either way. Why? Because they still get to RP in any case. The only people who should care are those who want no OOC during RP, and those who don't want to stop OOCing during RP.

That said, we don't need an Arena-specific mod. What we need is active mods in general that appear on the user list at all times and can be reached when necessary, who can then use their own discretion as to whether a situation needs to be handled. The Arena has operated fine over the years. The problem isn't mod or no mod, it's that a lot of people in the past couple of years lack the respect to hush, or else somehow feel like they need to look big and not back down when someone asks them to stop talking when RP starts. I don't mind OOC during RP so long as the OOC doesn't overpower the RP, myself.

Auvic's point was that you shouldn't get hung up on the issue because there is no logical reason for you to care other than wanting to prove an insubstantial point.

I couldnt agree more. I can tell everyone first hand, obviously, that an arena-only mod wont work. Hell, it didnt. I had faith it would but folks need a Global to really lay the law down and have them listen. As for people who don't mind OOC, Kade? Its not wholly up to them. You're forgetting the people that -DO- mind it and would like to probably read posts from those people who "dont mind" without having to constantly fight with their scroll bar to see them. I am one of those people.

It's about being polite enough to shut your trap during play. However, not all people are simply incapable of this Herculean feat.

[Kade]

As for people who don't mind OOC, Kade? Its not wholly up to them. You're forgetting the people that -DO- mind it...

There are people that do mind OOC happening that also do not believe the arena needs a mod.

Did you read that wrong?

[Pitch]

As for people who don't mind OOC, Kade? Its not wholly up to them. You're forgetting the people that -DO- mind it...

There are people that do mind OOC happening that also do not believe the arena needs a mod.

Did you read that wrong?

Uhm. I think you're reading what -I- am saying wrong. I'm not saying the arena needs another single room mod. Thats a terrible idea. Should I mention how many people who -dont- mind OOC also suggested a moderator? I mean, really.

[Auvic]

The people who do not mind it happening shouldn't care either way.

There are people that do mind OOC happening that also do not believe the arena needs a mod.

You sort of missed the point of what I was saying then, Kade.

If you can RP with OOC present, your opinion can be disregarded in this conversation.
If you can't RP with OOC present, then your opinion all of a sudden becomes important.

That said, of course there will be people that mind OOC that don't think there needs to be a mod present. Pretty sure I've already made allowances for that possibility as well, I think.
But all this is intended for the people who believed that it was necessary to have a mod present in order to quell OOC so that RP could happen.

But then again, thank you for giving me evidence that I was right.
All the people that you named? OOC might bother them, but it doesn't actually bother t hem enough for them to ask for a change to be brought about in the current environment. There's no real point in changing something like this unless people have a problem with it, and at this point in time, pretty much anyone/everyone that is unwilling to /ignore or tell people to quit OOC until it happens so they can RP simply doesn't RP in the Arena anymore.

And besides.

Yes, because some people genuinely believe no RP happens in the Arena without encountering issues with OOC.

And some people believe the world is flat, and that the moon is made of cheese. Remind me again of why I, or anyone else, should care? Feel free to quote the opinions of people who are more or less irrelevant in the context of this conversation.

[Inquisitor]

The people who do not mind it happening shouldn't care either way.

There are people that do mind OOC happening that also do not believe the arena needs a mod.

You sort of missed the point of what I was saying then, Kade.

If you can RP with OOC present, your opinion can be disregarded in this conversation.
If you can't RP with OOC present, then your opinion all of a sudden becomes important.

That said, of course there will be people that mind OOC that don't think there needs to be a mod present. Pretty sure I've already made allowances for that possibility as well, I think.
But all this is intended for the people who believed that it was necessary to have a mod present in order to quell OOC so that RP could happen.

But then again, thank you for giving me evidence that I was right.
All the people that you named? OOC might bother them, but it doesn't actually bother t hem enough for them to ask for a change to be brought about in the current environment. There's no real point in changing something like this unless people have a problem with it, and at this point in time, pretty much anyone/everyone that is unwilling to /ignore or tell people to quit OOC until it happens so they can RP simply doesn't RP in the Arena anymore.

And besides.

Yes, because some people genuinely believe no RP happens in the Arena without encountering issues with OOC.

And some people believe the world is flat, and that the moon is made of cheese. Remind me again of why I, or anyone else, should care? Feel free to quote the opinions of people who are more or less irrelevant in the context of this conversation.

You fill up your posts with a lot of elitist bullshit points about how you're the only one who actually seems to be in the Arena or something (I don't actually read posts), and seem to love completely discrediting and invalidating people's arguments plainly because it is not your argument.

[Inquisitor]

In equal response to both Kade and Auvic, as well:

Anecdotal evidence is not admissible...anywhere. "Yeah, well, when I was here, it didn't happen, so clearly, there's no problem at all!" That's not how shit works.

[Inquisitor]

also also also, an interesting phenomena to note is that once massive amounts of OOC flares up (and even worse, becomes ingrained), your casual user will leave and decide not to even bother, not necessarily complain to a mod or come to the forums. Hell, when I was around, it wasn't uncommon for the "regulars" to bitch out people who told them to can the OOC.

All the constant OOC in the IC room does is set up more stupid cliques and individual "communities" that take up residence in whatever room they've decided to, chat up the place, and then tell others to get out if they want to use the room for it's intended purpose rather then as an AOL chatroom to catch up with their friends.

[Inquisitor]

Hell you can take a look at the Pub, which basically went from being one of the chat's busier rooms as far as I was aware, to near-death before I got the boot.

[Auvic]

You fill up your posts with a lot of elitist bullshit points about how you're the only one who actually seems to be in the Arena or something (I don't actually read posts), and seem to love completely discrediting and invalidating people's arguments plainly because it is not your argument.

Not really, since I've made a point of mentioning that I don't RP in the Arena anymore, either.

What I've been trying to say is that the reason people wanted a mod for the Arena was for those that're trying to RP in the room, but feel they can't due to the amount of OOC or whatever. The one guaranteed way to shut OOC up is to kick/ban, unless you intend on /ignoring every person that OOCs - and if you do that, you miss the possibility to letting someone in on your RP when s/he decides to stop OOCing or whatever.
Aside from that, the updates on "This is how much RP we've gotten without a mod present" are unnecessary...because, as Sid's said, a regular user would just leave to RP in another room if there was too much OOC in the Arena for them.

On the topic of the Pub, though - when did Nukey+co move out? For a long while, it seemed like they were the only people to have a pretty continuous and lengthy bit of RP going on in that place.

[Amidon]

You fill up your posts with a lot of elitist bullshit points about how you're the only one who actually seems to be in the Arena or something (I don't actually read posts), and seem to love completely discrediting and invalidating people's arguments plainly because it is not your argument.

Self explanatory.

[Kade]

And some people believe the world is flat, and that the moon is made of cheese. Remind me again of why I, or anyone else, should care? Feel free to quote the opinions of people who are more or less irrelevant in the context of this conversation.

Why? You're obviously not the intended audience for that statement. You're not 'some people'. The only people that should care are the people I'm talking about. Move along. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Just so you know, Auvic, a lot of the people I noted do mind OOC. The days I mentioned where there was RP, there was virtually zero disruptive OOC too. Believe it or not, RP can and often does go smoothly in the arena. If someone had walked into the arena on those days and decided, "There's too much OOC in here for me to want to RP here," then that someone never would have been able to RP in the Forest either.

Seriously, it was better than the Forest. I don't see people screaming about the Forest needing a mod though. I realize that these are two entirely different rooms with different cliques at play, but be consistent. If people want bodies to hit the arena floor, crusade for the Forest too.

[-=Styles=-]

Said it in the beginning. This thread is uneccessary, hence my lack of involvment in it. This soap-box posting is ridiculous. I continue reading things that are reiterations of shit that's been said and done. In the end, when all's said and done, more is said than done.

Staff is doing their job, now more noticeably than before, and I think we can all agree that this is getting nowhere when it's simply a bunch of arguing and debating between player who won't reach a compromise on the subject (at least anytime soon).

[Xachariah]

dammit Sid there's a Modify Post option you baked-ass nigga

[Kade]

Said it in the beginning. This thread is uneccessary, hence my lack of involvment in it. This soap-box posting is ridiculous. I continue reading things that are reiterations of shit that's been said and done. In the end, when all's said and done, more is said than done.

Staff is doing their job, now more noticeably than before, and I think we can all agree that this is getting nowhere when it's simply a bunch of arguing and debating between player who won't reach a compromise on the subject (at least anytime soon).

I'm starting to feel the same way. At base, it seems like nobody is really arguing anything more complex than, 'No, I know what the arena needs better than you do.' Myself included. Ugh.

I wish someone would leap out of a proverbial bush and go, "Ohai, I've been taking notes on the arena for the past two years. Here are some statistics!"